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2 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

That pitch came closer to hitting me than Mercedes.

 

Guess the part that irritates me is LaRusso talking with the home plate umpire before the inning started. No warning given and then before Duffy was tossed the umps had to make s joint decision to eject Duffy. If it was intentional Duffy being tossed was probably known by the Twins. Was a good move by LaRussa in talking with the home plate ump

I don’t even know what specific pitch you are talking about. My point is anytime a pitcher throws at a hitter is absurd. No other sport has that imbalance. Anyway yeah it was know pregame, so LaRussa, baldelli, the umps, Duffey, Mercedes, they all knew

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4 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

So because it traditionally leads to a beaning that is cool? What is the tradition for position players coming in to save innings for pitchers? That is like a 15 month tradition

I don't care about the tradition personally, it's stupid. However, if the dude wanted to avoid getting plunked he knew what to do.

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Just now, donslaughtonslaught said:

I don’t even know what specific pitch you are talking about. My point is anytime a pitcher throws at a hitter is absurd. No other sport has that imbalance. Anyway yeah it was know pregame, so LaRussa, baldelli, the umps, Duffey, Mercedes, they all knew

The pitch that Duffy supposedly threw at Mercedes is the pitch I am talking about. If the dugouts were warned pregame the announcers knew nothing about it. LaRssa tslked with the umpire before the 7th inning (I believe it was the 7th inning) when all this happened.

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18 minutes ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

When is it warranted? When is “you made me look bad at my job, so I am going to hurt you” not absolutely ludicrous? 

There are plenty of chump moves you can do that would warrant wearing one.

 I don’t really mind any of it.

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1 minute ago, 89Topps said:

There are plenty of chump moves you can do that would warrant wearing one.

 I don’t really mind any of it.

name one. intentionally harming another person, and potentially affecting their ability to make a living is serious business. a guy hitting a 3-0 home run certainly doesn't warrant it, correct?

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Just now, sleepysock said:

name one. intentionally harming another person, and potentially affecting their ability to make a living is serious business. a guy hitting a 3-0 home run certainly doesn't warrant it, correct?

Again, I’ll ask; when has a player been hurt being intentionally thrown at.

And no, I don’t Yermin deserved it. I also don’t care that he was thrown at.

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1 hour ago, jfazz23 said:

Kinda feel the same

Can I clarify.

I did not read entire post.  Thought he was talking about dirty slides, hot dogging, stealing a base when ur up by 10 etc. 

 

The twins thing is ticky tac.  I know it's 3-0 but as stated he could just jacked one out the next pitch

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1 minute ago, Low and Away said:

The pitch that Duffy supposedly threw at Mercedes is the pitch I am talking about. If the dugouts were warned pregame the announcers knew nothing about it. LaRssa tslked with the umpire before the 7th inning (I believe it was the 7th inning) when all this happened.

Again, incredibly stupid move by the Twins given it was a close game against the top division rival, and they were lucky Sano decided to double his season HR total tonight with 3 bombs. This also has a lot to do with them stinking it up right now, and the Sox being 10 games up already. Maybe this will get them fired up to make it a race, but the "motivation" is highly suspect. Most of the hitters would argue they're paid to hit HRS, and the fact is it was against a position player. There's a bit of a distinction there for sure, as Astudillo's pitching stats mean nothing in terms of how his earnings will be calculated. So that point of view is debunked too. No need to warn anyone from the ump's POV, the intent was clear, and rather than get into the back and forth over what will be a long season series, this makes clear that further shenanigans from either side will result in suspensions. 

By the way I posted the Passan tweet about this in Yermin's thread-before his swing, MLB hitters had seen 557 3-0 pitches in the past 10 seasons with a 10+ run lead and not swung at a single one. So, from a statistical POV, this was a completely unique event. If it was disrespect by Yermin, it was unintentional. It's clearly part of his persona. What the Twins did in response was intentional and if this is how teams handle such things, they aren't worthy of much respect.  It just needs to end, for all the reasons stated in this thread. 

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Just now, 89Topps said:

Again, I’ll ask; when has a player been hurt being intentionally thrown at.

And no, I don’t Yermin deserved it. I also don’t care that he was thrown at.

 

 

So you don't care Yermin was thrown at? What if he gets hit in the knee or ankle and misses 6 weeks? Do you still not care then? Please.

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8 minutes ago, sleepysock said:

 

 

So you don't care Yermin was thrown at? What if he gets hit in the knee or ankle and misses 6 weeks? Do you still not care then? Please.

Yup. I already mentioned roided out Clemens. Although I don’t know that there was a particular reason he threw at Piazza, other than the fact he’s an a-hole.

 And how would Yermin get hit in the ankle being thrown at?  Lot of guys throw at guys knees and feet?

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2 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

Yup. I already mentioned roided out Clemens. Although I don’t know that there was a particular reason he threw at Piazza, other than the fact he’s an a-hole.

 And how would Yermin get hit in the ankle being thrown at?  Lot of guys throw at guys knees and feet?

Kevin Pillar and before that JT Snow and other have had their entire faces smashed by pitches. Like amazing they aren’t dead. By guys not even trying to hit them. Throwing a baseball at a guy for any reason is stupid. 

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11 minutes ago, sleepysock said:

 

 

So you don't care Yermin was thrown at? What if he gets hit in the knee or ankle and misses 6 weeks? Do you still not care then? Please.

And to clarify,  I don’t mind guys getting one in the butt or between the numbers. Of course I would have an issue with a guy throwing at someone’s head.

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Posted (edited)
16 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

And to clarify,  I don’t mind guys getting one in the butt or between the numbers. Of course I would have an issue with a guy throwing at someone’s head.

You say this as if a guy like Duffey has Maddux-like control. How would Yermin get hit in the knee or ankle? Let's see. Take a look at where the pitch ended up. Duffey was almost certainly aiming for the butt/middle of the body -- is that where the pitch ended up? Certainly not. He could have been way off and hit Yermin right on the wrist or knee or ankle instead of being way off and behind his legs. There is no good reason to throw a ball at a player. If you're pissed off at a hitter, strike him out and then pimp the strikeout like you're king kong or something. Intentionally hurting a guy is not defensible and should always lead to fines and suspensions. That kind of crap needs to be rid from the game.

Let me ask you this: If earlier in the game after Yermin singled, would it have been cool for the first baseman to punch him in the back or give him a knee to the stomach in between pitches as a form of retaliation instead of having Duffey throw at thim? Bc what you're arguing for is essentially the same thing. Now think about how ludicrous that is.

Edited by sleepysock
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1 hour ago, Low and Away said:

NBA players rest days have very little to do with the oppenant

Not sure how you missed his point there.

Also not sure how you missed that bright red squiggly line that's leaping off the page at you

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Honestly I don’t care for mlb’s unwritten rules. I don’t care if a team is up ten runs and the hitter swings 3-0. It’s a sport to compete, you’re purposely gonna give the other opponent an out?? 

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Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, sleepysock said:

You say this as if a guy like Duffey has Maddux-like control. How would Yermin get hit in the knee or ankle? Let's see. Take a look at where the pitch ended up. Duffey was almost certainly aiming for the butt/middle of the body -- is that where the pitch ended up? Certainly not. He could have been way off and hit Yermin right on the wrist or knee or ankle instead of being way off and behind his legs. There is no good reason to throw a ball at a player. If you're pissed off at a hitter, strike him out and then pimp the strikeout like you're king kong or something. Intentionally hurting a guy is not defensible and should always lead to fines and suspensions. That kind of crap needs to be rid from the game.

Let me ask you this: If earlier in the game after Yermin singled, would it have been cool for the first baseman to punch him in the back or give him a knee to the stomach in between pitches as a form of retaliation instead of having Duffey throw at thim? Bc what you're arguing for is essentially the same thing. Now think about how ludicrous that is.

Yea. What if?

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6 hours ago, itaos said:

If you swing in a situation that traditionally leads to retaliation and you get assaulted by a baseball later on, that's business as usual.

I don't think either side is in the right . But if you touch a hot stove you know the result.

Time to turn off the burner and crawl out of the cave and enter the 21st century.

5 hours ago, itaos said:

I don't care about the tradition personally, it's stupid. However, if the dude wanted to avoid getting plunked he knew what to do.

To "throw" his at bat?  That is bull.  The job of a hitter is to hit no matter what the score.  The job of a pitcher is to prevent him from hitting by throwing well.  Not hitting him when he does the job he is paid to do.  This isn't Little League.  Time baseball grows up because most of these unwritten rules are totally absolutely stupid on top of the fact you can destroy a player's career with this one because he did what he was suppose to do.  Hit the damn ball the best he can and not throw in the towel.

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I don't even know what the purpose of this rule is tbh.  You don't want to waste bullpen arms then forfeit the game.  When was this so called "unwritten rule" implemented if I may ask?  Sounds like a big softy rule that would more so fit todays generation of baseball player and management.   

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More of a fantasy one than a baseball one: but don't text a guy in your pool to gloat, downplay, or  compare when a serious injury happens.

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7 hours ago, donslaughtonslaught said:

I don’t even know what specific pitch you are talking about. My point is anytime a pitcher throws at a hitter is absurd. No other sport has that imbalance. Anyway yeah it was know pregame, so LaRussa, baldelli, the umps, Duffey, Mercedes, they all knew

What is this wrestling? If everybody is in on some fabricated retaliation than what was the point?

How does this play out...."Hey Mercedes, we are going to throw at you but its going to be way behind you, this is to teach you a lesson for swinging on a 3-0 with a big lead, ya got it? Alright so dont do it next time or else we will have to put on this charade again"

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After reading the other posts I'm going to put in my two cents.  First of all I do believe it is all case by case.  For example, I liked that Tatis swung 3-0 vs the rangers last year (they were up a ton but not 10).  Maybe it's because I remember games like Indians vs Mariners in the 90's and how crazy comebacks happen.  TEX was still pitching relievers and no I don't think you should put on the breaks if you're SD because the Rangers were still going to try to win the game if a few breaks happen their way, so why shouldn't SD?

As far as the Mercedes/Astudillo situation, there's a few things I want to cover.  First of all part of the reason Astudillo is in there is because they are literally just saying "hey you guys win, let's get this over with as fast as possible."  They were obviously no longer trying.  Part of why Astudillo is not throwing hard is because he's not wanting to get hurt.  His 40MPH lob balls are another sign they're saying "hey we're not competitive anymore, here's our white flag, let's go home asap."  That's two situations of the same unwritten rule (swinging 3-0 up big) that I interpret differently.

With that said and MIN obviously no longer competing, I don't feel there's a "bunch" of unwritten rules I think there's only two big ones.  One is don't swing 3-0, the other is don't be overly aggressive on the basepaths (steal, take extra bases, etc.).  If they want to mash Astudillo go for it that's fine.  It's part of the downside of putting in a position player and MIN has to be aware of that.  But I just don't think you should swing 3-0.  You can try to get your stats and swing hard, but there's no reason to be swinging 3-0, stealing bases, taking the extra base etc.  To me that's in the same realm of a basketball team putting in their backups down 60 with two minutes left and you start full court trapping.  You'll get your stats but they're obviously surrendering and you don't need to juice it as much as you can

I might get destroyed in here for this but it is what it is.

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2 minutes ago, Wytchclt55 said:

First of all part of the reason Astudillo is in there is because they are literally just saying "hey you guys win, let's get this over with as fast as possible." 

You can try to get your stats and swing hard, but there's no reason to be swinging 3-0

 

So i agree in general with you but one caveat here.....if the idea is to get out of the inning asap without injuring your position player then putting a man on is probably one of the least desired outcomes, since its one more batter to face and several more pitches to be thrown. The best way to get somebody out (Astudillo isnt K'n anyone) is for the ball to be put into play. Its just in this case the ball went out of the field of play.

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2 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Time to turn off the burner and crawl out of the cave and enter the 21st century.

To "throw" his at bat?  That is bull.  The job of a hitter is to hit no matter what the score.  The job of a pitcher is to prevent him from hitting by throwing well.  Not hitting him when he does the job he is paid to do.  This isn't Little League.  Time baseball grows up because most of these unwritten rules are totally absolutely stupid on top of the fact you can destroy a player's career with this one because he did what he was suppose to do.  Hit the damn ball the best he can and not throw in the towel.

This. Remember earlier this year when the Braves were crushing the Cubs and Rizzo came in to face Freeman and they had s***eating grins the whole AB. Freeman was trying to crush one 500 feet and ended up K'ng, but he wasn't in the least "throwing" his AB. Guys are professionals and come contract time in arbitration or whatever, every stat counts. Maybe the fact that the Twins are divisional rivals and not just another team played into the choice to swing 3-0 up a ton as well, like screw them they already showed us disrespect throwing in a guy lobbing the ball and making this a little league game instead of using an actual professional pitcher. 

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