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“Unwritten Rules” Discussion


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I have a problem with pitchers retaliating because they pitch poorly.  You don't want a homer off of you then pitch better Mr Bozo.

Absolute clown show from Minnesota and LaRussa. Guys have had DL stints (or come close -- remember Acuna?) from getting thrown at in retaliation for nonsense  -- that's not "justice" or "the players p

When is it warranted? When is “you made me look bad at my job, so I am going to hurt you” not absolutely ludicrous? 

7 hours ago, Fbaseballgod said:

There’s a disconnect in this thread from what /should/ be considered disrespectful and what actually is in the real world.  Maybe some of you are cutthroat competitors and wouldn’t mind running up the score, but most people don’t feel that way.   ...

You mean I'm in thte minority because you took a Nielson poll of Americans?  I did not know this.

7 hours ago, Overlord said:

A lot of this comes down to two competing philosophies on competition that have battled within American society throughout the centuries (and I'm pretty sure which of these attitudes currently predominates):

There is the mantra most often attributed to Vince Lombardi:  "Winning isn't everything, it's the only thing."  

On the other hand, you have Grantland Rice:  "When the One Great Scorer comes to mark besides your name, He writes not that you won or lost, but how you played the game."  

Perfect!  Rice is right.  You the hitter play the game the right way and try your best on every single pitch to hit the damn ball.  That's how you play the game.  You don't wimp out.  You respect the game and don't make up stupid rules that say you should curl up and die at the plate to make your team look bad.  How you play the game is to get it your best 100% of the time!

Lombardi, OTOH, as a manager would have his pitchers throwing at batter's heads if they dared to play the game right as in never giving up an out and trying their best all the time.  I can imagine Lombardi in baseball saying, "How dare they try to legitimately beat us by playing well.  Go bean that guy!"

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Using this forums logic from years past (Greinke actually head hunting in the true meaning of beanball) why would Duffy put a runner on first by hitting Mercedes in a 4-2 game? The Twins still had a chance of winning.

 

Would it have better if the pitch was inside and really came close to hitting him. Or if the pitch wasn't a sinker but a fast ball. Oh that is right an umpire crew needed a conference to determine if Duffy had thrown at the batter. The home plate ump, who was also the crew chief couldn't tell on his own Duffy's intent

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1 hour ago, 2ndCitySox said:

Honestly Mercedes taking the walk there would also drag the game out. At least swinging gave ethe chance to hit the ball into play for an out, thus ending the misery sooner. Again, pretty amazing that Yermin hit a little league pitch 400 feet. 

Kind of reminds me of what do you on like 4th & 5 inside your opponents 10 when you’re up big.  Do you go for it?  Then it looks like you’re trying to run up the score. Do you kick a FG?  Then it looks like you’re just taking easy points.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, sleepysock said:

This is factually incorrect. 99% of those who have come out and commented on the situation side with Yermin and against TLR/the Twins.

I would note two things:

1.)Players who are more likely to bray about this sort of issue outside the clubhouse are probably also the sorts of player who don't really care about "traditional" rules of gamesmanship.

2.)Since 2008 there have been only two other 3-0 swings taken by players in games in which their team was up 10+ runs (according to fangraphs).  Two ... total ... in thirteen years.  Golly, since apparently I'm so wrong about this being an unwritten rule of the game, that is a f***ing amazing coincidence! 

Edited by Overlord
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7 hours ago, Overlord said:

I would note two things:

1.)Players who are more likely to bray about this sort of issue outside the clubhouse are probably also the sorts of player who don't really care about "traditional" rules of gamesmanship.

2.)Since 2008 there have been only two other 3-0 swings taken by players in games in which their team was up 10+ runs (according to fangraphs).  Two ... total ... in thirteen years.  Golly, since apparently I'm so wrong about this being an unwritten rule of the game, that is a f***ing amazing coincidence! 

IMO I'm not a fan of swinging in that instance, but whatever. The bigger issue was LaRussa publicly calling out Mercedes, then being ok with Twins throwing at him the next game (albeit half-heartedly). It should have been discussed behind closed doors, and when asked about it, LaRussa could have then just said, "We talked it about after the game. There's nothing more to say on it." 

None of this would still be talked about if TLR didn't fumble the snap, run backwards ten yards, trip over his own feet, then lob a pick-six while falling down. 

(Sorry for mixing sports, but it seemed apt to the sh*tuation) 

 

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8 hours ago, Overlord said:

I would note two things:

1.)Players who are more likely to bray about this sort of issue outside the clubhouse are probably also the sorts of player who don't really care about "traditional" rules of gamesmanship.

2.)Since 2008 there have been only two other 3-0 swings taken by players in games in which their team was up 10+ runs (according to fangraphs).  Two ... total ... in thirteen years.  Golly, since apparently I'm so wrong about this being an unwritten rule of the game, that is a f***ing amazing coincidence! 

Well how many 3-0 counts were there? And how many strikes were thrown on that 4th pitch?

Working walks drags the game out further, guys should be swinging at the first strike to move the game along.

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15 minutes ago, StevieStats said:

Well how many 3-0 counts were there? And how many strikes were thrown on that 4th pitch?

Working walks drags the game out further, guys should be swinging at the first strike to move the game along.

Guys should be swinging at the first strike to knock the crap out of it, which he did.   The one thing he did wrong though, which IS a big deal, was missing or blowing off the take sign from his third base coach.  Gus Cantrell taught us all that no one’s above the team.   

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10 hours ago, sleepysock said:

And Yermin isn't? He's a 28 yo rookie who, despite a hot start, is promised nothing going forward. Not a good take.

Huh? I am the one who said Yermin is a guy playing for a job so I am all for him swinging 3-0. What are you talking about and what are you referring to as a "bad take"?

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14 hours ago, this guy right here said:

Unwritten rules like, no show boating, no stealing or swinging at 3-0 with a big lead are ridiculous.

If you don't like being shown up, don't suck. Get mad at yourself for failing. Use it as motivation to improve.

Boo hooing is for spoiled children.

 

 

THIS.

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The unwritten rule isn't that you can't swing 3-0 up 10 runs.

 

The unwritten rule is that if you swing 3-0 up 10 runs you get thrown at you next time you're up.

 

TLR was trying to protect his rookie from getting hit hard in retribution and it worked.

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Posted (edited)
15 hours ago, this guy right here said:

Unwritten rules like, no show boating, no stealing or swinging at 3-0 with a big lead are ridiculous.

If you don't like being shown up, don't suck. Get mad at yourself for failing. Use it as motivation to improve.

Boo hooing is for spoiled children.

 

Weird thing is and I have looked that the Twins didn't come out and boo hooing the act. Duffy just quietly went about his business of sending a message. Wasn't a very good knockdown pitch but he is a Twin after all.  When he got ejected he calmly walked off the mound and went straight to the dugout and then left the game. RB did a minor scene yelling at the ump but it seemed more about the way the ejection was handled then the actual ejection of his pitcher. When he was ejected he just walked off the field.

 

Exactly where did a Twin act like a spoiled child?

 

Being down 14-5 exactly where or how does Mercedes adding another run give more motivation to improve? That is like saying shooting a 105 instead of a 104 in golf would make you want to improve more. Both rounds suck but the extra stroke is really meaningless as far as motivation goes.

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1 hour ago, Ultraa said:

The unwritten rule isn't that you can't swing 3-0 up 10 runs.

 

The unwritten rule is that if you swing 3-0 up 10 runs you get thrown at you next time you're up.

 

TLR was trying to protect his rookie from getting hit hard in retribution and it worked.

That unwritten rule is just too arbitrary and makes no sense which is probably why Yermin didn’t bother following it. Wouldn’t surprise if this isn’t an enforced unwritten rule much longer.

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MLB could probably do away with a lot of this by issuing more severe fines and suspensions when a pitcher is suspected of intentionally throwing at a batter.

I honestly wonder how much they want to rid the game of this though. This has a lot of people talking about an otherwise very uninteresting Twins, White Sox game.

 No such thing as bad press.

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"Baseball is a red-blooded sport for red-blooded men. It's no pink tea, and mollycoddles had better stay out. It's a struggle for supremacy, a survival of the fittest."

-Ty Cobb

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