Jump to content
NBC Sports EDGE Forums

2021 June Closer Thread


Recommended Posts

On 6/21/2021 at 4:27 PM, Fbaseballgod said:

Why would you ever ignore the Reds bullpen when they have 2 of the best relievers in the game (Antone and Sims) on the back end? 

 

On 6/21/2021 at 4:33 PM, B&F said:

I was going to ask why the hate with Sims in this thread.

 

We Talked To The Guy Behind The Best Meme Of 2016 And He's Been Laughing  Nonstop

Edited by kmoore1521
  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

7 minutes ago, rcarena said:

Antone is the fireman. Unfortunately Sims started a fire. 

“Some men just want to watch the world burn.”

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Clase and Karinchak=Jesse Orosco and Roger McDowell of the '85 Mets. No one has seen a duo this nasty share closing duties in such a long time people aren't sure what to make of it. Just enjoy the ride, even more so if you have either in a SV+H league. Silly to come here every time either gets a save and proclaim it to be the demise of the other, it is what it is.

Edited by Richard Kimble
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The saddest part is that the Reds bullpen is so bad they really have nobody else to turn to lmao.  Sims is still far and away their most reliable non-Antone reliever.  Who are they gonna use instead, Amir Garrett? Lmao 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

40 minutes ago, B&F said:

I do not own Sims.  I thought he was the closer.  Is he the fireman?

The Reds decided to switch up their roles when Sims had like 13 straight scoreless innings in the closer role and antone had who knows how many good innings in the fireman role.  Don’t ask me why

Edited by Fbaseballgod
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Richard Kimble said:

Clase and Karinchak=Jesse Orosco and Roger McDowell of the '85 Mets. No one has seen a duo this nasty share closing duties in such a long time people aren't sure what to make of it. Just enjoy the ride, even more so if you have either in a SV+H league. Silly to come here every time either gets a save and proclaim it to be the demise of the other, it is what it is.

Andrew Miller and Dellin Betances were a sweet duo when Chapman was suspended. They were equivalent to having an elite pitcher. Low era/whip with 7-12k’s a week combined. Sprinkle in a hold/save/win every few days.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 minutes ago, Bogey9906 said:

Sims is a fireman in a Fahrenheit 451 kind of way.

“It was a pleasure to burn (ratios).”

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Holland again for KC.  Sure looks like they want him to be the guy.

Not sure what Staumont's role even is---Barlow and ZImmer are the primary set-up guys from usage.

So odd.  Just managing innings and waiting for the deadline when they can send some of those guys away for value I guess

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

15 hours ago, Fbaseballgod said:

The saddest part is that the Reds bullpen is so bad they really have nobody else to turn to lmao.  Sims is still far and away their most reliable non-Antone reliever.  Who are they gonna use instead, Amir Garrett? Lmao 

Garrett Got the Save yesterday. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

for anyone still following the d-backs closer situation, crichton came into the 6th inning of a game they were losing and gave up 2 ER without getting an out.  it looks like soria will be getting the next shot at a save, whenever that may be for this historically awful d-backs team.  the rays situation is still muddy as ever as feyereisen came into a tie game in the 8th vs boston and pitched 2 scoreless IP, fairbanks came in for the 10th with the game still tied and pitched a scoreless first inning (which is tougher with the man on 2nd to start the inning), but couldn't keep the magic going for a 2nd inning and ended up getting blasted for 3 ER in the 11th to take the loss.  it seemed as if fairbanks had moved to the head of the committee, but he has been saddled with the loss in 3 of the last 4 games he has come into over the last week.  probably looking at castillo today if there is a rays save opp.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 6/21/2021 at 2:08 PM, Fbaseballgod said:

No idea, he got absurdly unlucky early season and since then has been on an elite tear.  Peripherals were always good though even when he was getting unlucky (and the unlucky ness isn’t just with BABIP it was being put in bad situations like rain, Coors, etc)

Didn’t we debunk this in last months thread (or earlier this month).

Take out these situations you seem to think aren’t fair and Sims stats don’t really change much.

That “unfair” rainy Coors outing you keep referencing, he allowed 1 ER over 2 IP, K’ed 3 and picked up a win.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, swingbatter said:

for anyone still following the d-backs closer situation, crichton came into the 6th inning of a game they were losing and gave up 2 ER without getting an out.  it looks like soria will be getting the next shot at a save, whenever that may be for this historically awful d-backs team.

It certainly seems no one is, because I was able to scoop Soria in a deep NL only league after they broke the 17 game losing streak, a 5-1 win which they had Soria pitch a scoreless ninth, which was as much a must-win spot as I can think of for this team, so he's the closer as they would theoretically be willing to sell him for a bag of baseballs if any other team comes calling, no idea why one would, that's another story. 

1 hour ago, swingbatter said:

the rays situation is still muddy as ever

This. Especially ugly with blowups from Castillo and Fairbanks, and Kevin Cash is going to continue setting on one guy for a week before moving on to the next one. Add in the fact that he's now forced to coax multiple innings out of Kittredge as an opener, and extending guys like JP, Fairbanks as well, all a direct result of the loss of Tyler Glasnow to that pitching staff, it's just a dart throw. You still need to own Castillo, and Fairbanks and Feyereisen are good for holds leagues. Perhaps the best pitcher to have in that pen is Springs, he has nasty K numbers and might figure in the late inning carousel again at some point. But I'm not trying to set off a rush to get him, if you have him or Ryan Thompson in a roto type league, they've been giving decent value and are worthy of a spot as ratio stabilizers. I'd still rather speculate here than maybe Baltimore or Arizona. We should almost relegate them to the middle reliever thread, the whole team could pitch at any point in a bullpen game, which they figure to have many of ROS.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

34 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

 

This. Especially ugly with blowups from Castillo and Fairbanks, and Kevin Cash is going to continue setting on one guy for a week before moving on to the next one. Add in the fact that he's now forced to coax multiple innings out of Kittredge as an opener, and extending guys like JP, Fairbanks as well, all a direct result of the loss of Tyler Glasnow to that pitching staff, it's just a dart throw. You still need to own Castillo, and Fairbanks and Feyereisen are good for holds leagues. Perhaps the best pitcher to have in that pen is Springs, he has nasty K numbers and might figure in the late inning carousel again at some point. But I'm not trying to set off a rush to get him, if you have him or Ryan Thompson in a roto type league, they've been giving decent value and are worthy of a spot as ratio stabilizers. I'd still rather speculate here than maybe Baltimore or Arizona. We should almost relegate them to the middle reliever thread, the whole team could pitch at any point in a bullpen game, which they figure to have many of ROS.

My sleeper pick to have the most value in the Tampa bullpen going forward is the guy they just optioned back to triple A - Drew Rasmussen. I expect him to be catching a flight back to Tampa as soon as possible and I think he’s got the best stuff by a significant margin in that ‘pen. In his 6/19 outing he k’ed 4 out of 5 hitters he faced, threw 18 out of 23 pitches for strikes, averaged 99 on his fastball, flashed a wipeout slider, and had a 52% CSW. He’s nasty. The only knock on him has been his command but he hasn’t shown any of those issues since Tampa got a hold of him. He’s obviously not worth a pick up now, but I’d suggest keeping him on watch lists (unless you’re in my leagues in which case pay no mind).

 

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bounced from 40-man roster
June 23, 2021
The Diamondbacks designated Crichton for assignment Wednesday.
ANALYSIS
Crichton has recorded four of the Diamondbacks' six saves this season and was working in a high-leverage role out of the bullpen as recently as a couple of weeks ago, so Arizona's decision to drop him from the 40-man roster comes as a surprise. The fact that he led the team in saves is probably an indictment of the lack of quality relief arms in Arizona more than anything, as Crichton's ratios (6.04 ERA, 1.84 WHIP, 2.8 K-BB%) wouldn't have made him deserving of a spot in most of the other bullpens around baseball. Crichton doesn't have any remaining minor-league options, so if another team puts in a waiver claim for him, he would have to be added to the 26-man active roster.
 
Looks like Joakim Soria is the play for those desperate for saves.

 

 

Edited by PinstripeGM
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, 89Topps said:

Didn’t we debunk this in last months thread (or earlier this month).

Take out these situations you seem to think aren’t fair and Sims stats don’t really change much.

That “unfair” rainy Coors outing you keep referencing, he allowed 1 ER over 2 IP, K’ed 3 and picked up a win.

The rain outing and the Coors outing were separate outings.  Plus, there were a ton of other innings in which he was either put into situations where there were multiple runners on base, extra inning games where he IBB'd or walked guys cause of playing around the Manfred runner, and outings like the one that happened last time where relievers allowed his inherited runners to score.

But, don't trust me: trust the peripherals.  Even with last outing, he has a 3.1 xERA.  

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, PinstripeGM said:
Bounced from 40-man roster
June 23, 2021
The Diamondbacks designated Crichton for assignment Wednesday.
ANALYSIS
Crichton has recorded four of the Diamondbacks' six saves this season and was working in a high-leverage role out of the bullpen as recently as a couple of weeks ago, so Arizona's decision to drop him from the 40-man roster comes as a surprise. The fact that he led the team in saves is probably an indictment of the lack of quality relief arms in Arizona more than anything, as Crichton's ratios (6.04 ERA, 1.84 WHIP, 2.8 K-BB%) wouldn't have made him deserving of a spot in most of the other bullpens around baseball. Crichton doesn't have any remaining minor-league options, so if another team puts in a waiver claim for him, he would have to be added to the 26-man active roster.
 
Looks like Joakim Soria is the play for those desperate for saves.

 

 

In save starved leagues like mine, I am considering it..lol

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Backdoor Slider said:

Clase has 2 saves in his last 6 IP over the last 2 weeks.

Karinchak has 1 save in his last 8 IP over the last 2 weeks.

So this is just plain false.

Karinchak picked up the last save, and was in line to pick up another one if their opponent had managed to score one more run. My statement was, and still is, entirely accurate. I'm not proclaiming the permanent demise of either. They're likely to continue flipping back and forth based on matchups or whatever criteria. But the last couple outings very much point to Karinchak being back in the role at this time. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Fbaseballgod said:

The rain outing and the Coors outing were separate outings.  Plus, there were a ton of other innings in which he was either put into situations where there were multiple runners on base, extra inning games where he IBB'd or walked guys cause of playing around the Manfred runner, and outings like the one that happened last time where relievers allowed his inherited runners to score.

But, don't trust me: trust the peripherals.  Even with last outing, he has a 3.1 xERA.  

 

He has 3 IBB this year.

And he's entered a game in extra innings twice.  3 innings, 1 earned, 4 Ks and 2 Ws in those appearances.  

And, he's a relief pitcher.  They enter games with runners on base.

This narrative that Sims is the victim of abnormally unfair circumstances is just not accurate.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, 89Topps said:

He has 3 IBB this year.

And he's entered a game in extra innings twice.  3 innings, 1 earned, 4 Ks and 2 Ws in those appearances.  

And, he's a relief pitcher.  They enter games with runners on base.

This narrative that Sims is the victim of abnormally unfair circumstances is just not accurate.

He is a victim though.  I mean he literally is outperforming every single peripheral on numbers alone.  

3.10 xEra

3.4 FIP

3.74 XFIP
 

even going by the least generous, 3.74 is much better than his current ERA and is ~adequate with his nice strikeout numbers. 

 

The “unfair circumstances” is just gravy on top of that to suggest he should have even better numbers than the peripherals suggest.  You keep discounting every thing I talked about as if it happened only 1 or 2 times but these kinda add up when you’re dealing with the small sample sizes of relievers?  Like 3 innings of extra innings, 1-2 appearances with needing to IBB, 1 appearance in coors, another with rain.  More with runners on base and he has to pitch around guys.  and one I forgot to mention was that he was asked to pitch 2x innings a lot/a ton of stressful situations.  Because the reds suck.  which isn’t really fair of a reliever.  He’s also had to pitch in multiple roles which has been enough of a factor alone to explain sub performance from relievers.  I’m not even mentioning the runners that weren’t inherited by guys like Antone because the peripherals should take that into account.    
 

another thing to note is that a lot of Sims ERA damage comes from like 3-4 outings, which is obviously preferable from the reds perspective than a guy that gives up a run every inning.

this is also to say that I have a lot of confidence in sims going forward as long as the reds don’t keep jerking him around.  The one thing I’m worried about is spin rate because he was definitely using the sticky stuff 

Edited by Fbaseballgod
  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, BMcP said:

Let’s just assume his actual ERA was 3.10 - why would that give you confidence in a closer?

Yeah.  I mean I would be happy to run him out because he strikes so many guys out.  But tbqh, my answer to this question will depend on his next 3-5 appearances to see how he does with reduced spin rates.  They were down and, well, they were what made Sims elite…

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...