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Home Plate Umps Should Be Replaced by Robots


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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, GamblorLA said:

Isn't part of the fun of going to the game the fans booing all the real and perceived bad calls? Kind of lobbying for their side. Or saying "man, that looked like a strike to me." Using your own judgement as a fan. Asking your friend if they saw it the same way.  All that interaction as opposed to the passivity of a computer telling you the answer every time.

Ump/ref jokes?

Maybe it's not the best comparison but I think it's a similar principle.  Poker has been solved by computers. High level poker matches are now mainly contests about who can best remember/emulate what the computer would do.  While it's interesting in it's own way, it's far less exciting and far fewer people watch. And there is very little to debate or discuss afterwards. Should he have made that call? You just ask the computer.

Personally, I have never gone to a game thinking "I can't wait to boo some incorrect calls"...I go because I enjoy the game and my hope is that calls are made correctly. When they're not, it's a negative to the game IMO.

Edited by ThreadKiller
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59 minutes ago, Richard Kimble said:

Personally, I will have no enthusiasm for a computerized zone. 

Some would say that's the entire point of a computerized zone, as your enthusiasm shouldn't be spent on something that shouldn't be an area of focus like an umpire doing their job and calling a correct game, but on the actual players playing the actual game of baseball. But I'm not one of those. I think baseball players are incredibly overpaid. I don't go to watch deGrom face off against Soto in a battle of future HoF talents. I'm not there to remember the magical moments that can happen on one play of one player besting another, or something like a player having the worst moment of their career to have a brain fart and screw up something that ends up becoming an infamous error like Buckner. I go for the excitement of wondering if the umpire is going to be able to do their job that day! My only issue is why they have to dress in such mundane colors? They need to paid a lot more money, and Manfred should make efforts to make them a bigger focal point of each game.

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Posted (edited)
44 minutes ago, GamblorLA said:

Isn't part of the fun of going to the game the fans booing all the real and perceived bad calls? Kind of lobbying for their side. Or saying "man, that looked like a strike to me." Using your own judgement as a fan. Asking your friend if they saw it the same way.  All that interaction as opposed to the passivity of a computer telling you the answer every time.

Ump/ref jokes?

Maybe it's not the best comparison but I think it's a similar principle.  Poker has been solved by computers. High level poker matches are now mainly contests about who can best remember/emulate what the computer would do.  While it's interesting in it's own way, it's far less exciting and far fewer people watch. And there is very little to debate or discuss afterwards. Should he have made that call? You just ask the computer.

 

I actually hear ya.

 

But see, I don't think all of that would go away with giving the umps some help on a small percentage of the overall pitches. Just get a little closer to being right on bad calls that are well out of the zone (or well in the zone).

 

There will still be close calls that the ump will call and the crowd/tv audience won't like. I get what you're saying and I don't think it would go away with giving the umps an earpiece to help reduce BAD calls, not borderline calls.

Edited by Members_Only_76
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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Low and Away said:

I miss the manager coming out and protesting calls and eventually being tossed. To me that was good entertainment. 

Best manager meltdown ever:

He just needed to hit the ump over the head with a steel chair to seal it. He even looks like the Iron Shiek a little.

Edited by 2ndCitySox
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Posted (edited)
8 minutes ago, AnonymousRob said:

Some would say that's the entire point of a computerized zone, as your enthusiasm shouldn't be spent on something that shouldn't be an area of focus like an umpire doing their job and calling a correct game, but on the actual players playing the actual game of baseball. But I'm not one of those. I think baseball players are incredibly overpaid. I don't go to watch deGrom face off against Soto in a battle of future HoF talents. I'm not there to remember the magical moments that can happen on one play of one player besting another, or something like a player having the worst moment of their career to have a brain fart and screw up something that ends up becoming an infamous error like Buckner. I go for the excitement of wondering if the umpire is going to be able to do their job that day! My only issue is why they have to dress in such mundane colors? They need to paid a lot more money, and Manfred should make efforts to make them a bigger focal point of each game.

 

Agreed. I love the game but I have never tuned into a game due to my enthusiasm for a human strike zone...I can't relate to that at all.

I don't care how the calls are made but I watch the game expecting it to be fair and with the correct calls made.

Edited by ThreadKiller
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2 minutes ago, AnonymousRob said:

Some would say that's the entire point of a computerized zone, as your enthusiasm shouldn't be spent on something that shouldn't be an area of focus like an umpire doing their job and calling a correct game, but on the actual players playing the actual game of baseball. But I'm not one of those. I think baseball players are incredibly overpaid. I don't go to watch deGrom face off against Soto in a battle of future HoF talents. I'm not there to remember the magical moments that can happen on one play of one player besting another, or something like a player having the worst moment of their career to have a brain fart and screw up something that ends up becoming an infamous error like Buckner. I go for the excitement of wondering if the umpire is going to be able to do their job that day! My only issue is why they have to dress in such mundane colors? They need to paid a lot more money, and Manfred should make efforts to make them a bigger focal point of each game.

 

Naked Gun Umpire GIFs | Tenor

 

Naked Gun Umpire GIF - NakedGun Umpire Dance - Discover & Share GIFs

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13 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

After reading/posting in this thread, I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to allow replay review of a called strike 3. They've already been reviewing all swinging strikes forever, way before replay, with the 1st/3rd base umps.

Yeah let us just make 5 hour games a thing.  Way to increase baseball's popularity.  (Swing strikes checks take one second, replays take a full Ice Age).

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6 hours ago, posty said:

Reading some of these responses by some of you, if you didn't know better, you would come to the conclusion that the home plate umpire gets the call wrong about 80% of the time...

How would you feel if you went to a restaurant and they got your order right 95% of the time. Probably be pretty upset the other 5% right?? Multiply that by $8MM and I think it’s easy to see why front offices would be concerned. 

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7 hours ago, AnonymousRob said:

Some would say that's the entire point of a computerized zone, as your enthusiasm shouldn't be spent on something that shouldn't be an area of focus like an umpire doing their job and calling a correct game, but on the actual players playing the actual game of baseball... (funny sarcasm)

Earlier I suggested a false sense of security from having a machine do so.ething was the reason that some people prefer the 2D box/dot method over a human even though the box/dot method is entirely wrong for the high/low strike. 

But I think your reasoning above also has something to do with it. People would rather not even think or "focus" at all on the actual strike zone and would rather just mindlessly trust a box on the screen even the top of the box may occasionally be touching the hitters neckline or the middle of his shins. 

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7 hours ago, ThreadKiller said:

Personally, I have never gone to a game thinking "I can't wait to boo some incorrect calls"...I go because I enjoy the game and my hope is that calls are made correctly. When they're not, it's a negative to the game IMO.

Obviously, there's some room for preferences.  

Went to my first MLB game in many years (I live in a AAA city) recently.  I wasn't excited to boo the umps before the game, but I do remember enjoying it and the shameless biasness of the crowd, booing obviously good calls. I liked trying to judge the balls and strikes myself, then watching the replay to reassess.

Tatis went bananas and it was great to see an awesome player being awesome. There was an inside the parker, one of those rare, quirky plays unique to baseball.

Loved the 7th inning stretch. Fans making good catches. The kiss/dance cam. Walking around the stadium. 

To me, it's all part of the charm of the game and why I only want to watch a cold, objective measure of athletic prowess like the 100 meter dash about once every 4 years.

The classic Naked Gun scene is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. That whole scene is about all of the little things and quirks that make baseball great. With robo umps, the scene never would have happened. 

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3 hours ago, The Big Bat Theory said:

Yeah let us just make 5 hour games a thing.  Way to increase baseball's popularity.  (Swing strikes checks take one second, replays take a full Ice Age).

You can only get one free manager challenge and the rest are at the umps discretion. If someone wants to use it on a called strike 3 like the one to Odor the other day, that would probably be resolved faster than most other challenges anyway. So it might actually speed things up if managers started using their challenge on a called strike 3 instead of something that takes more time to review. It could also save time in situations where the manager argues a called strike 3, gets tossed, and then runs out to get his money's worth for 5 more minutes when it could have just been challenged that one time and be done with. 

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3 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

You can only get one free manager challenge and the rest are at the umps discretion. If someone wants to use it on a called strike 3 like the one to Odor the other day, that would probably be resolved faster than most other challenges anyway. So it might actually speed things up if managers started using their challenge on a called strike 3 instead of something that takes more time to review. It could also save time in situations where the manager argues a called strike 3, gets tossed, and then runs out to get his money's worth for 5 more minutes when it could have just been challenged that one time and be done with. 

I'd rather watch a manager kick dirt on the plate than sit through another replay challenge quite frankly.

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10 hours ago, mudrummer said:

How would you feel if you went to a restaurant and they got your order right 95% of the time. Probably be pretty upset the other 5% right?? 

Nope...  I politely tell them that it is wrong and sent it back to have it corrected...

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9 hours ago, Fiveohnine said:

You can only get one free manager challenge and the rest are at the umps discretion. If someone wants to use it on a called strike 3 like the one to Odor the other day, that would probably be resolved faster than most other challenges anyway. So it might actually speed things up if managers started using their challenge on a called strike 3 instead of something that takes more time to review. It could also save time in situations where the manager argues a called strike 3, gets tossed, and then runs out to get his money's worth for 5 more minutes when it could have just been challenged that one time and be done with. 

Isn't that one of the problems with instant replay? You get the one challenge for the game if you are wrong. Use it and be wrong and not be able to challenge on obvious bad call afterwards. How does that equal fair?

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16 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

Isn't that one of the problems with instant replay? You get the one challenge for the game if you are wrong. Use it and be wrong and not be able to challenge on obvious bad call afterwards. How does that equal fair?

I think it ensures people only use it on the clearly bad calls rather than just roll the dice and hope for a reversal. 

Another positive that could come from allowing a called 3rd strike challenge is that average fans watching TV would eventually become aware of the fact that the static 2D box/dot is NOT the actual high/low strike zone.

Ignorance of the rule seems to be a big part of the outrage when it comes to this issue. 

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I’ve thought this about other sports, but I wonder if the speed and velocity of the game has made it too difficult to be officiated in real time by on field umps & refs.

Umps would never admit this, but I wonder how difficult it has become to call balls and strikes with nearly everyone throwing 99 and huge breaking sliders.

 All that to say, I don’t know if umps are getting worse or the game is just getting too fast.

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^baseball has been around since before the radio was invented. I think really the only difference over the years has been the quality and definition of video replays. They were probably just as good/bad in the black/white TV era. Just no one could ever have been the wiser.

Edited by Fiveohnine
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3 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

I’ve thought this about other sports, but I wonder if the speed and velocity of the game has made it too difficult to be officiated in real time by on field umps & refs.

Umps would never admit this, but I wonder how difficult it has become to call balls and strikes with nearly everyone throwing 99 and huge breaking sliders.

 All that to say, I don’t know if umps are getting worse or the game is just getting too fast.

I don't think they are getting worse, they are calling it how they are seeing it and like you said, the game is much faster now so it could be harder to keep up...

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11 minutes ago, 89Topps said:

Speaking of bad calls, this one is pretty rough, but Casty's reaction is priceless. 😄

I do agree with @GamblorLA a little bit of drama and showmanship like this is entertaining.
 

 

It was a strike...

When it crosses the front of the plate, it is at the very bottom left corner of the box...

image.png.4100e80b002b90ee55467b72f83621be.png

Edited by posty
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43 minutes ago, posty said:

It was a strike...

When it crosses the front of the plate, it is at the very bottom left corner of the box...

image.png.4100e80b002b90ee55467b72f83621be.png

I must've said this about 50 times in this thread. But the bottom of the box is NOT the bottom of the strike zone. It's the bottom of the knee when the batter is prepared to swing.

That said, watching the replay it's very clear that the dot ended up being much lower than where the ball actually was when it was over the plate. the dot was almost down where the ball hit the catcher's glove when you watch closely.

This is a perfect example of why lack of consideration and/or knowledge of the actual strike zone is a much bigger part of the problem than the umps when it comes to this issue.

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2 minutes ago, Fiveohnine said:

I must've said this about 50 times in this thread. But the bottom of the box is NOT the bottom of the strike zone. It's the bottom of the knee when the batter is prepared to swing.

That said, watching the replay it's very clear that the dot ended up being much lower than where the ball actually was when it was over the plate. the dot was almost down where the ball hit the catcher's glove when you watch closely.

This is a perfect example of why lack of consideration and/or knowledge of the actual strike zone is a much bigger part of the problem than the umps when it comes to this issue.

Correct and it crossed at the knees...

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4 minutes ago, Members_Only_76 said:

 

and this is a ball 

 

 

Both of those pitches were strikes. The only difference is the hitter complained about one and not the other. I wonder why.

On the second one, the box makes the call look worse by being a little below the bottom of the the knees. I mean it was a strike. But it was closer than the box made it look.

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56 minutes ago, posty said:

It was a strike...

When it crosses the front of the plate, it is at the very bottom left corner of the box...

image.png.4100e80b002b90ee55467b72f83621be.png

 

10 minutes ago, Fiveohnine said:

I must've said this about 50 times in this thread. But the bottom of the box is NOT the bottom of the strike zone. It's the bottom of the knee when the batter is prepared to swing.

That said, watching the replay it's very clear that the dot ended up being much lower than where the ball actually was when it was over the plate. the dot was almost down where the ball hit the catcher's glove when you watch closely.

This is a perfect example of why lack of consideration and/or knowledge of the actual strike zone is a much bigger part of the problem than the umps when it comes to this issue.

 

how can you tell from that angle where the ball was when it was at the height of the bottom of the zone? The ball could be a foot in front of the plate and then is lower than that when it starts to cross the front of the plate.

 

need the side angle or "3D" K zone :D

 

 

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