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Keep him and the rest of the roid cheaters out, IMHO.

**I find it pretty interesting that likely roiders who never got named in a criminal or civil sting basically got off scot-free regardless of how obvious their juicing was.  Sports media is allergic to any kind of statistical or physiological analysis in this regard, so if you weren't caught red-handed you don't have to worry about ever being scrutinized.

I can think of one HOF who had a better season at age 37 across the entire statistical spectrum (including obliterating his career best HR and RBI totals and achieving a slugging percentage far outside his baseline) than he had at age 27, after he'd already been an established All-Star for multiple seasons.  Yeah ... that's unusual.  

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13 minutes ago, Overlord said:

Keep him and the rest of the roid cheaters out, IMHO.

**I find it pretty interesting that likely roiders who never got named in a criminal or civil sting basically got off scot-free regardless of how obvious their juicing was.  Sports media is allergic to any kind of statistical or physiological analysis in this regard, so if you weren't caught red-handed you don't have to worry about ever being scrutinized.

I can think of one HOF who had a better season at age 37 across the entire statistical spectrum (including obliterating his career best HR and RBI totals and achieving a slugging percentage far outside his baseline) than he had at age 27, after he'd already been an established All-Star for multiple seasons.  Yeah ... that's unusual.  

Aaron Rodgers?

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Posted (edited)

In his case, while juiced, he went from great to inhuman. 

If he never took gear he would have made it. He embarrassed the league with his domination while doping. Not with his doping.

No other player, on any drug, will do what he did from '01 through '04. They walked him with the bases loaded people.

 

It's Hall of FAME. Not Hall of Non-Cheaters.

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2 minutes ago, this guy right here said:

 

No player on any drug will do what he did from '01 through '04. They walked him with the bases loaded people.

I feel like there's a typo here that's obscuring your point, because a player did do it ... namely, Bonds.  Do you mean any other player? With or without drugs?  

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3 minutes ago, this guy right here said:

In his case, while juiced, he went from great to inhuman. 

If he never took gear he would have made it. He embarrassed the league with his domination while doping. Not with his doping.

No player on any drug will do what he did from '01 through '04. They walked him with the bases loaded people.

 

It's Hall of FAME. Not Hall of Non-Cheaters.

But he did “take gear.”  Therefore, no, exclude him forever - he cost multiple journalists time in jail due to his refusal to be honest.  F him.

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I'd let Bonds in, Clemens, - let 'em all in. They were mostly quite good in their own right when they originally game into MLB. More importantly the numbers they put up are objectively worthy of HOF consideration. MLB could have done something about the issue but tacitly allowed it. If anyone should do anything, it is the MLB. They should sack up and nullify all of their career numbers altogether rendering their careers irrelevant to the HOF discussion. That would be because it would be impossible to tell when exactly their previously already good numbers were elevated by PEDs. But we all know MLB would never do anything like that - that would be far too bold for a league that originally allowed the problem to persist.

Instead we're going to play "the pretend game" that these guys aren't HOF worthy when the numbers clearly say they are. If the HOF was a virtue-signaling contest Ty Cobb and plenty of others wouldn't be there. Of course it's quite likely this current group of HOF voters wouldn't let Cobb in either - he's lucky he got in when he did. 

The situation with Rose is an utter joke imo for quite similar reasons- put him in. If I was Pete by now I'd tell them to eff off.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, BMcP said:

But he did “take gear.”  Therefore, no, exclude him forever - he cost multiple journalists time in jail due to his refusal to be honest.  F him.

 

11 minutes ago, this guy right here said:

It's Hall of FAME. Not Hall of Non-Cheaters.

They are grown men. Playing a game. For a living and our entertainment. They should be able to do what they want and should be encouraged to put on they best show possible. What he did was must see. He was unstoppable. He wasn't they only unclean player BY FAR. The few big names you know is a small fraction. MLB couldn't suspended 70% league. The product would be worse than it si now

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5 minutes ago, this guy right here said:

 

He wasn't they only unclean player BY FAR. The few big names you know is a small fraction.

Can you name some players you believe have flown under the radar but haven't been called out publicly out?

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Just now, this guy right here said:

I was more interested if people thought it was a PR stunt.

I think he's just trying to move on one way or another. He's probably as sick of hearing about the issue as everyone else.

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4 minutes ago, this guy right here said:

I was more interested if people thought it was a PR stunt.

Barry Bonds, much like his father, has by all accounts been a self-absorbed, narcissistic piece of s**t for pretty much every day of his big league career.  It seems like every anecdote about him casts him in a negative light. 

If he's doing something nice for anyone other than himself I'm going to assume there are ulterior motives.  

Edited by Overlord
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2 minutes ago, Overlord said:

Barry Bonds, much like his father, has by all accounts been a self-absorbed, narcissistic piece of s**t for pretty much every day of his big league career.  It seems like every anecdote about him casts him in a negative light. 

If he's doing something nice for anyone other than himself I'm going to assume there are ulterior motives.  

Yeah I'd say that is a reasonable assumption haha.

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Posted (edited)
6 minutes ago, Overlord said:

Barry Bonds, much like his father, has by all accounts been a self-absorbed, narcissistic piece of s**t for pretty much every day of his big league career.  It seems like every anecdote about him personally casts him in a negative light.

If he's doing something nice for anyone other than himself I'm going to assume there are ulterior motives.  

Well, if being that way would've lead me to live either of their lives I wish I did it.

Maybe we have been convinced to be good people by self-absorbed, narcissistic pieces of s**t for a long time. That sure would make it easier for them to dominate us? If so, they win. 

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1 minute ago, this guy right here said:

Well, if being that way would've lead me to live either of their lives I wish I did it.

Maybe that's we have been convinced to be good people by self-absorbed, narcissistic piece of s**t for a long time so it would make it easier for them to dominate us? If so, they win. 

A lot of people realize too late in life that the phrase "Nice Guys Finish Last" isn't a joke, it's 100% true.

 

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Bonds should be in the Hall and should Clemens...  Pete Rose should get in only after Jackson gets in and after he passes, but not until then...

There are already steroid users in the Hall and the Hall is the history of the game and like it or not, steroids was a big part of the game for a long time...

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Posted (edited)
1 minute ago, Overlord said:

A lot of people realize too late in life that the phrase "Nice Guys Finish Last" isn't a joke, it's 100% true.

 

It's very defeating when you do realize....when you've tried your hardest to be a good guy that is.

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2 minutes ago, this guy right here said:

Well, if being that way would've lead me to live either of their lives I wish I did it.

Maybe we have been convinced to be good people by self-absorbed, narcissistic pieces of s**t for a long time. That sure would make it easier for them to dominate us? If so, they win. 

Nah - there are plenty of good guys in the pros - of all sports. They likely are significantly outnumbered by the a-holes but they're out there.

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3 minutes ago, posty said:

There are already steroid users in the Hall and the Hall is the history of the game and like it or not, steroids was a big part of the game for a long time...

Lots of things were part of the game for a long time.

Doesn't mean those things were okay.  

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1 minute ago, SuperJoint said:

Nah - there are plenty of good guys in the pros - of all sports. They likely are significantly outnumbered by the a-holes but they're out there.

No, there really aren't.  There are just guys who are better at public relations. 

**I'll give you just one example:  what percentage of married pro ballplayers do you think are faithful to their wives?  

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1 hour ago, collucho said:

I believe he should be in the HOF...as should Pete Rose. 

Pete Rose!!  A guy who bet on games when he was a manager?!?!?!?  You have to be kidding me ...

Didn't someone do an analysis of Pete Rose's managerial stint and find several bizarre situations where Cincy hitters were disqualified for batting out of order, meaning that Rose had given a different lineup card to the Umps than he had to the players?  I'm going to go look that up, but it happened far more than one would expect.  

The guy bet on baseball, there's evidence he betted on his team to lose, then when he was caught he lied about it and personally attacked Bart Giamatti, who shortly thereafter died with the echo of Rose's blatant falsehoods still ringing in the public's ear.  

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