Jump to content
NBC Sports EDGE Forums

Recommended Posts

On 6/14/2021 at 4:43 PM, SuperJoint said:

I'd let Bonds in, Clemens, - let 'em all in. They were mostly quite good in their own right when they originally game into MLB. More importantly the numbers they put up are objectively worthy of HOF consideration. MLB could have done something about the issue but tacitly allowed it. If anyone should do anything, it is the MLB. They should sack up and nullify all of their career numbers altogether rendering their careers irrelevant to the HOF discussion. That would be because it would be impossible to tell when exactly their previously already good numbers were elevated by PEDs. But we all know MLB would never do anything like that - that would be far too bold for a league that originally allowed the problem to persist.

Instead we're going to play "the pretend game" that these guys aren't HOF worthy when the numbers clearly say they are. If the HOF was a virtue-signaling contest Ty Cobb and plenty of others wouldn't be there. Of course it's quite likely this current group of HOF voters wouldn't let Cobb in either - he's lucky he got in when he did. 

The situation with Rose is an utter joke imo for quite similar reasons- put him in. If I was Pete by now I'd tell them to eff off.

I think you mean virtue, rather than virtue signaling.  

Even then, it's not about if they are good or bad people. It's about endangering the game.

Gambling is the ultimate sin because it threatens the integrity of the game. If you could get away with it, we'd never know if the players, umps or managers were actually trying to to do well. 

Roids wrecked all the hallowed records and stats. Obviously baseball is the most stats/numbers driven game, so it was a pretty big deal. Us over 40s grew up wondering if anyone would ever hit 60 dingers again. All that's gone and the records are forever meaningless. It also puts pressure on other players to endanger their health. 

The comparison of roids users to players during segregation, made by another poster, is off.  Babe Ruth didn't create racism to gain an advantage. 

I agree, it's amazing Penn State got away with running a pedo operation. This stuff doesn't matter much compared to stuff like that. But it is consistent to keep people out for damaging the sport without worrying  about all these other issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

10 minutes ago, BMcP said:

Nice but I thought we were all talking about steroids here, not amphetamines which tons on tons of HOF's took on a daily basis like it was candy. Greenies were the steroids of the old school time period.

And as I've said even greenies are performance enhancing.

Edited by quietj
  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, quietj said:

Nice but I thought we were all talking about steroids here, not amphetamines which tons on tons of HOF's took on a daily basis like it was candy. Greenies were the steroids of the old school time period.

And as I've said even greenies are performance enhancing.

Pretty sure Bonds was taking substances in addition to steroids - including Human Growth Hormone.  I was just addressing your false claim that he never officially tested positive for PEDs.  At least he had the decency to throw a teammate under the bus for his choice to cheat.

 

Carry on-

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just now, BMcP said:

Pretty sure Bonds was taking substances in addition to steroids - including Human Growth Hormone.  I was just addressing your false claim that he never officially tested positive for PEDs.  At least he had the decency to throw a teammate under the bus for his choice to cheat.

 

Carry on-

Hey I won't argue his character whatsoever. Bonds was one better than Clemens though who threw his own wife under the bus for steroids LOL.  

  • Haha 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 minutes ago, quietj said:

Hey I won't argue his character whatsoever. Bonds was one better than Clemens though who threw his own wife under the bus for steroids LOL.  

And I, too, would never argue that other human beings had even worse character in history than Barry Lamar Bonds.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 minutes ago, quietj said:

Nice but I thought we were all talking about steroids here, not amphetamines which tons on tons of HOF's took on a daily basis like it was candy. Greenies were the steroids of the old school time period.

And as I've said even greenies are performance enhancing.

Funny I never saw a performance boost from taking them or the people I hung around with at that old school time period. But who knows maybe my performance did increase but I was to hyper to notice it.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Low and Away said:

Funny I never saw a performance boost from taking them or the people I hung around with at that old school time period. But who knows maybe my performance did increase but I was to hyper to notice it.

Lol, curious, How many games a year did you play while taking them? And how much travel per  week?

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Members_Only_76 said:

Lol, curious, How many games a year did you play while taking them? And how much travel per  week?

At most three games and travel was by bus to local towns. It was high school and us dopers hung out together. LOL

  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, Low and Away said:

At most three games and travel was by bus to local towns. It was high school and us dopers hung out together. LOL

But those three games per season were glorious!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

17 minutes ago, Low and Away said:

At most three games and travel was by bus to local towns. It was high school and us dopers hung out together. LOL

😂 

 

I imagine greenies improved performance for guys grinding out 160 games and traveling 5 days a week 🤷🏻‍♂️ 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

13 hours ago, dicka24 said:

The man made a mockery of the sport imo.  In Pitt he hit .275 with a 162 game average of 28 HR's per.   In SF he hit .312 with a 162 game average of 48 HR's per.   He did this while walking 1947 times in 1976 games in SF, versus  611 times in 1010 games in Pittsburgh.   No one threw to him  in SF and he still hit 20(!) more homers on average.   

Was he really good before SF?  Yes he was.  Was he a HOF'er?  Not at 27 years old he wasn't.  Being awesome thru your age 27 season doesn't guarantee you're a lock for the HOF.  The leagues history is littered with players who have great 5 or 6 year stretches and then hit a wall, or regress from their peaks.  Chances are he might have been, but we just can never say for sure.  

Well, of course he wasn’t a HOFer at age 27, he’d only played 7 seasons to that point.  That’s also not when he started taking steroids, so I’m not sure what your point is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, Smallball said:

There have been several documentaries made trying to clear his name.
Reading old books with actual players talking about his character is way more than I needed to know about Cobb. 
 

I had to edit this because of your snide reply. 
You get the honorable task if defending a man that went into the stands and beat a cripple who was heckling him. That’s who your defending. 
 

So please, please lecture and tech me about how he was misunderstood. 

And please do note, that this wasn’t a single incident over a otherwise unblemished 24 year career. 

It wasn't meant to be snide. I used to thank the same thing about Cobb. There was a time when I used to believe MANY things without actually researching myself. Thankfully that changed. Thankfully I rid myself of the insecurity that lead to a dogmatic stance on things I thought were true.

Clearly you didn't watch it...or, you refuse to admit you may be wrong because your beliefs are your identity. Don't feel bad, man. You are in the VAST majority. 

Edited by this guy right here
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

44 minutes ago, StevieStats said:

The fact his like Edgar Martinez and Harold Baines are in and he isn't makes the HOF an absolute joke.

Go look at some of the very old members. Joke. 

This guy, too. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/simmote01.shtml

HOF should be people that are unforgettable. They need to be the upper echelon.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think the Hall Of Fame committee might be a little salty towards Barry stockpiling a ton of his achievement memorabilia. They want to display his milestones and add to their collection. Except, Barry, won’t give it up.

He knows they want to use his goods primarily for financial gains. His display of achievements would be legendary inside The Hall. They don’t want him....just his stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, this guy right here said:

It wasn't meant to be snide. I used to thank the same thing about Cobb. There was a time when I used to believe MANY things without actually researching myself. Thankfully that changed. Thankfully I rid myself of the insecurity that lead to a dogmatic stance on things I thought were true.

Clearly you didn't watch it...or, you refuse to admit you may be wrong because your beliefs are your identity. Don't feel bad, man. You are in the VAST majority. 

I watched it. 
 

I asked you to defend Cobb going into the stands and beating a cripple in front of his children. Something that Cobb admitted to doing. 
I absolutely don’t blame you for avoiding that completely because it invalidates the point you’re trying to make. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think of the Hall of Fame as a museum to various eras of baseball.

As such it's kind of silly to me that the guy who hit the most home runs in a season ever isn't in there regardless of the other circumstances.  It isn't like we're going to forget about Barry Bonds just because he doesn't have a bust in there, and it isn't like the conversation won't center around steroids even if he did.

I get other people feel like it's more of a holistic honorific on ability and character and if they are the ones voting on it that is how it is.  But that's my opinion.  Bonds is a part of baseball history.  He will continue to be.

  • Like 2
  • Thanks 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, this guy right here said:

Go look at some of the very old members. Joke. 

This guy, too. https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/s/simmote01.shtml

HOF should be people that are unforgettable. They need to be the upper echelon.

Yeah but the difference is in talking about his that played within his era that can't hold a candle to him...

And as if Edgar didn't take steroids lmao the dude literally checks every single box for steroid use from being a scrawny zero power scrub 26 year old rookie to magically transforming his body to a big dude and doubling his cranium size and then magically being a big time hitter age 32 when his ISO vaulted 200 points. Dudes career was a life support until his magically transformation, he's the worst kind of user because he should have been out of the league completely.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, StevieStats said:

Yeah but the difference is in talking about his that played within his era that can't hold a candle to him...

And as if Edgar didn't take steroids lmao the dude literally checks every single box for steroid use from being a scrawny zero power scrub 26 year old rookie to magically transforming his body to a big dude and doubling his cranium size and then magically being a big time hitter age 32 when his ISO vaulted 200 points. Dudes career was a life support until his magically transformation, he's the worst kind of user because he should have been out of the league completely.

Assuming an increase in size must be a result of steroids is a pretty flat argument. I know this thread is very centered around the topic of juicing but you guys do know there is a thing called lifting weights right? 

  • Like 1
  • Haha 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

38 minutes ago, MSkibisky said:

Assuming an increase in size must be a result of steroids is a pretty flat argument. I know this thread is very centered around the topic of juicing but you guys do know there is a thing called lifting weights right? 

Did you work for MLB during the steroid era? This sounds like something they would have said.🙄

  • Haha 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, MSkibisky said:

Assuming an increase in size must be a result of steroids is a pretty flat argument. I know this thread is very centered around the topic of juicing but you guys do know there is a thing called lifting weights right? 

I said he checks all the boxes of a steroid user... scrawny scrub 26 year old rookie... didn't become great until 32.... After massive body changes... During steroid era...

But there was actually a report that came out from a former player from the Mariners that didn't have a great career and didn't really make it... He said steroids were rampant in the Mariners clubhouse... When asked for a comment about this in retirement Edgar Martinez claimed he never once ever saw a single steroid or heard of anyone using in the Mariners org... Lmao that's such a laughable lie, he's guilty as heck.

Point is, you can't put him in and not a guy like Bonds. Edgar was a fraction the player of bonds.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...